Orr: Yes

Ulman is asking about the filing was done on July 18th at 4:06pm. He is putting up the court filing where the date on the paperwork has the 19th crossed out and the 18th put I,

Ulman: do you remember telling Ken Buckfire that you moved the bankruptcy up because of the hearings going on in Lansing for a Temporary Restraining Order to prevent a chapter 9?

Orr: I don’t specifically recall that but I have no reason to doubt it.

Ulman: The filing was made the day before it was planned, can you say whether the TRO influenced your decision to move up the date?

Orr: I think I said before I was prepared to file the case immediately. I said before we were going to give it a month to come up with an alternative proposal. The situation was beginning to file out of control and there were a number of other reasons why we filed when we did outside of the reason you stated.

Ulman: asked Orr whether he knew that the state court ruled after the fact that the TRO would have been granted and the Chapter 9 filing should not happen.

Orr: I am aware there was a state court ruling. I may had made the ruling, aware in substance. Yes.

10:19 AM --

Ulman continues asking Kevyn Orr about the unfunded liabilities and the work done by the Milliman Actuarial Group on the unfunded pension liabilities and when the analyses were completed.

They are now sliding deeply in the weeds of pension actuarial accounting and which discount rates used in determining the unfunded liabilities.

Judge Rhodes is asking Ulman where his line of questioning is going and to move things along.

10:45 AM --

Kevyn Orr just explained how the water and sewer department pensions are considered city debt obligations even though the Detroit water and sewer pensions are not paid out of the general fund but by the Detroit water and sewer.

Ulman begins asking about the DIA and its art ... talking about retaining Christies auction house to value the art.

Ulman: “Is it not a potentially large source of cash?"

Orr: "It is valuable but I do not know whether it is a source of cash for the city."

Ulman: "You are aware of the press reports about the value of the art being in the billions?”
Orr: "Yes."
Ulman: "Would not cash in that magnitude pay for pension obligations for the next several years?"
Orr: "It might."

Ulman: "There is nothing in your plan that takes the art into consideration."
Orr: “We spoke of the DIA but did not talk about the art.”

Ulman now asking about water and sewer department valuation, are you aware of how much cash it might bring?”
Orr: “No.”
Ulman: Nothing in the June 14th plan shows the water and sewer changes would pay for pensions correct?”
Orr: "We would use money to pay unsecured creditors."
Ulman: "The value of their bonds might go up ... nothing in there that treats the pension benefits above bondholders."
Orr: "There is nothing that treats pension benefits that treats unsecured creditors differently.”

Ulman then moves on to whether any negotiations actually took place [negotiations the city is required as part of its bankruptcy eligibility must show were conducted in good faith: he lists a number of meetings and asks:

Ulman: "On June 14th in a meeting, no negotiations took place right?"
Orr: "No."
Ulman: "After June, you did not attend all the sessions or meetings with the unions correct?”
Orr: "Yes."
Ulman went on to ask about the letter requesting permission to file a chapter 9 in the city sent to the governor. You discussed what happened at the various meetings with the unions:
Individual follow up meeting: June 20, city’s advisors conducted meetings with unions, 25th, it says advisors met with various persons, general and police retirement systems, due diligence with pension funds, July 10th follow up diligence sessions with the unions and pensions, again July 11, sessions with unions and pensions, negotiations with counterparties to the swap contracts.
“You say the city’s negotiations” but this is the only place.

Orr: "The document speaks for itself."

I have nothing further.

Break until 10:55 a.m.