Do you need assistance of city officials to make that happen? Of course.

Why? That particular property Detroit owned.

April to November 2001 time period? Not really thinking about east River Front. I've always thought that piece of property was wasted. I can't tell you in April of 2001 i was thinking i need to use this property.

What specifically were you hoping to develop? hired some people and started to do Research and Development. 

What did research show? That it would be hard to find people like Best Buy or home Depot. The anchors. They weren't interested. 

Met some of the biggest shopping people in the world. they couldn't see their way through to be part of the plan. 

Next witness says he thought about building a convention center and a casino. 

Ambitious plan. Did you have a background? No but it didn't take me long to get together some people that did. 

Serious technical issues. Feed completely off. 

Any of his other staff? Yes. Derrick Miller. worked for Kwame. Witness met with him more than 25 times. More than 50 times with members of mayor's administrations. 

Did you talk about your casino plans between election and talking office? no. 

Did you go to Las Vegas with him? I've been to Las Vegas when he's been there more than once.

Did you go to a title fight in Las Vegas? Yes.

Did that occur before he took office as mayor? I think probably it was before.

Exhibit 15- witness's credit card statement that includes bill from Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas.

It's a MasterCard. Closing date 12/4/2001. Before the mayor takes office.

$7,214- date posted is 11/14 for 6 tickets to the championship fight with Lennox Lewis.

Was mayor with you in Las Vegas? He wasn't with me but he was in Las Vegas.

Did you talk about your casino plans? I don't thinks so.

Who were tickets for? 2 for himself and wife, 1 for Curtis Hertil, 1 for Bernard and 1 for Kwame. Tickets cost $1,200. 

Where were you when you saw Bernard? Prior to going fight gave tickets to Bernard.

Did you tell him one of the tickets was for son?

Rutherford with Curtis Hertel, Art Blackwell, Bernard were at the bar at the Mandalay. Someone at the table got a call saying that the Detroit News had asked if Rutherford had paid for Kwame Las Vegas trip.

Darci McConnell called Rutherford in his hotel room. Could tell that it was going to miserable. Hadn't plane for his plane ticket or his hotel.

Witness says that it was the start of harassment and things that weren't true.