McCann says later in the spring 2002 she met Ferguson with Yale Levin, anothe EVP with Soave. they went to his offices on wyoming. It was an initial introduction. Ferguson told them about his family history and types of work he had done. Soave execs talked about the scope of their company and mentoring programs.

McCann says Ferguson clearly had a company with yellow iron. He made clear he had contracting expertise. One of the focuses was how much money would make on the contract. He seemed to want 3%. Not clear what he met. Levin thought he meant 3% of profits.

Defense objects to hearsay. Judge overrules.

McCann says the 3% was confusing to her. It was unusual. there was not a lot of "diving into detail in this conversation."

McCann says most contractors focus on top line and efforts they would provide. Not her recollection that was what Ferguson did.

3% of $50 million contract is $1.5 million.

McCann says there were a number of different ways that Ferguson's companies could contribute to contract. It took them a long time to get to how the contract would be executed. There were lots of discussions between Inland and Ferguson about how 20% minority target would be met.

McCann describes interactions with Ferguson as "difficult."

McCann did not understand the 3%. It was a nonsensical focus says the witness. Ultimately there was work that they could have Ferguson do.

McCann says normally when sub-contractor could do $10 million of work, they will be aggressive about getting it done. Not that way with Ferguson. McCann perceived Ferguson as difficult, "substance over form." It happened repeatedly that the actual movement of getting contract to actual place would take a long time.

McCann says "we were essentially in a forced marriage". She says they did their best to get the contractual arrangements to satisfy their arrangement with the city of Detroit.

McCann says the forced marriage was with Ferguson who had been selected for them by the former mayor.

Chutkow asks for sidebar for upcoming topic.

Kwame is sitting back in his navy velvet jacket and red and white plaid tie. Very Christmasy. Bobby is in a camel colored suit.

11:14AM Chutkow asking about Mackinaw policy conference in June 2002. McCann went to conference as did Ferguson. They spoke about the breakdown of the contract. It was general conversation about what it would be- they identified percentage of dig up work for Ferguson to do. The target that had originally been allocated to Williams.

Looking at memo from Inland to DWSD on December 4th 2001. Lists IWPC (Inland Waters) 35% of contract, Insitu Form for 30%, CJ Williams for 20%, Superior Engineering 5%. Willie McCormick, L. D'Agostini and Superior Contraction listed for a shared 10% of the contract.

At the policy conference on Mackinaw, she ran into people from the mayor's office including Derrick Miller. Ran into him at an event at one of the island's hotels. The mayor was there as well as was Ferguson. Miller asked how negotiations with Ferguson were going. Miller brought it up. McCann says it made her uncomfortable. It was a very public setting. They were concerned that Williams had been replaced and that competitors may use this to get contract rebid. Conversation did not seem appropriate to her. Mccann says it was the first time she experienced this type of conversation.

McCann says it was well know that Inland bid was 15 to 40% less than next bidder. Inland was very nervous about losing this contract to other bidders based on the delay.

McCann says she took notes about conference. Once meeting was done, she called Soave and Levin and voiced her concerns from conference.

McCann says their pricing info on the bid publicly published. If the contract were rebid, Inland would have been at a distinct disadvantage. McCann says it's not uncommon from municipalities to ask people to submit sealed bids. They are then ranked.

McCann says that her concern was that the contract was not yet done and a mayoral cabinet member asking about it let her know again that the negotiations had to be done before conference concluded.

McCann says mayor is very friendly. Saw him at the conference and he told her "Bobby is a good guy." She said they were working on it meaning working to get Bobby his $10 million worth of work.

Witness says she met with Insitu Form to see how they could fit Ferguson in the project. McCann says she met with regional executives at Insitu form about Ferguson. The Inland folks worked it out with Insitu Form- the ultimate goal was to get Ferguson Enterprises work and then revenues for that work.

Witness says she talked to Ferguson about work he had to do to get paid. "Actions speak louder than words," says McCann. They wondered how serious he was about actually doing work.

McCann says they had a concern they would be unable to meet minority requirement as promised to city of Detroit. they still did not have meaningful work from FEI because basic contracts had not been signed.