Witness says he didn't tell them because he was scared when they showed up in his office. Witness shutdown JOA in 2007 because he had a stroke. Witness spoke to Wodehouse after he was discharged from hospital about getting more work. Witness also called Ferguson about it. Ferguson said he didn't want to talk to him until he resolved his issues with Wodehouse. Ferguson hung up with him and that was last time they spoke.

9:55AM Evelyn for Ferguson cross-examines witness. Evelyn asks about memory problems due to stroke. Witness says he has none.

Looking at JOA's payment schedule chart. Witness says he told FBI at first that he didn't have all the invoices on the Heilmann project. Witness says these numbers came from his computer.

Witness says he spoke to FBI agents on several occasions. The first time he spoke to them was September 2012. Project took place in 2003 says Evelyn. Then witness spoke to them on October 5th, 24th. Phone call with FBI on October 25th. Met with FBI on November the 9th and December 4th. Met at least 6 or 7 times starting with the September 26th meeting says Evelyn. Witness doesn't recall exact number but thinks it's more than 3.

Evelyn pressing that the first time witness spoke to FBI was fall of this year.

Evelyn talking about enveloped for re-election contributions. Evelyn says witness told FBI initially that it was 2002. Witness says yes he did but then reviewed the matter and realized it was during Kilpatrick's re-election.

Evelyn approaches witness with notes from his interviews with FBI.

Witness says "He (Evelyn) showed me 4. I said 3," about the number of times he met with the FBI.

Evelyn lists 5 meetings. Evelyn going back to the fact witness said initially contributions were in 2002. Witness didn't write a check himself for the re-election campaign contributions, it was just the sub-contractors. Didn't think there was anything illegal about it.

Witness says he got a call from Tyrone Clifton at the DBA to pick up his RFP for the Heilmann project at their offices. Witness says he knows Wodehouse very well and they are friends. Met in 1986 at Bartinelo, a large contractor. Worked together on $66 million in Troy. Evelyn says Wodehouse helped to train witness. Witness says he was his assistant engineer on the Troy project. Witness refusing to concede he was trained by Wodehouse. Witness says he was at Bartinelo 10 years. Started JOA in 1992.

Wodehouse left Bartinelo as well. Wodehouse has a degree in architecture. After they both left Bartinelo, they maintained contact. Evelyn saying that witness asked Wodehouse to work for him. No says witness he had his own company. Witness says that Wodehouse provided computer programming for his company. Witness says that he stopped using Wodehouse as a consultant "many, many years ago."

Witness says he had heard of Xcel, a newer company than his company JOA. Xcel was his first joint venture experience in design/build.

Witness says he would not go onsite on projects all that often.

Evelyn says that Wodehouse approached him for joint venture because JOA had bonding capacity that Xcel did not. Evelyn says that is also why you were getting a much greater percentage of the fee because you were taking the risks. Witness agrees.

10:15AM Witness says he had never heard of architects STG before the Heilmann project.

Evelyn asks witness if he is a black male. "Of course," says the witness about the blatantly obvious. So is Wodehouse and STG is a black company. Evelyn says so Wodehouse was building a minority team. Witness says he doesn't know about that.

Witness saying "being capable is not the only reason to get a job." "You have to have a connection." he says alluding to Wodehouse and Ferguson's connection to the Kilpatrick administration.

Witness says David Cypher lead project executive for JOA on Heilmann project. Evelyn says a Bobby Toliver worked with Xcel on the project. Witness says he heard that. Evelyn says a Richard Duroy was replaced by Kevin Obary on the project.

Witness says that Xcel didn't have people in the field. JOA had only people in the field.

Evelyn saying that witness wasn't at all the progress meetings. Witness says Wodehouse prepared minutes for meetings. So Evelyn how did he prepare those minutes if he wasn't in the field. witness says it's because Wodehose listened to what went on in progress meetings.

Evelyn saying witness had problems with Richard Duroy and Wodehouse had to step in. Witness says that is not accurate.

Evelyn listing all the things that Wodehouse did for the Heilmann project: estimations, budget. JOA says his people did the budget.

10:26AM Judge calls for 20 minute break.

10:46AM The most exciting thing at the courthouse today is Jim Schaefer's "residents of Bloggerville" who have been sitting in the courtroom and observing everyone in the trial. And their observations are great. There are four of them who have watched Ferguson pick his nose during the court proceedings and told Kwame that Cheese Its are not appropriate breakfast material. Jim Thomas apparently threatened to get one of them kicked out of the courthouse for approaching the defendants. Schaefer's groupies also made it to the first floor snack shop where they flanked Local 4's own Kevin Dietz.

10:50AM Evelyn back at cross. Looking at RFP for the Heilmann project.