What about Charlie Williams? He was director of the DWSD? Yes.

Williams had friends and contacts within the city of Detroit? Yes.

9:46AM You would agree that having williams as sub-contractor assisted getting contracts? Soave says listen with DWSD we bid all the contracts. He was familiar with the people at the DWSD.

And that helped get contracts? Well he knew the people.

Well prior to the process, the people in the DWSD they know Charlie Williams? Soave says I would assume at the DWSD there is not a box that says they know Charlie Williams.

Williams did not have employees, equipment, didn't do sewere repair and pipe rehabilitation? No he did not.

Williams brought relationships and access to the table? "He brought much more than that. He was an attorney. I thought he'd be a good person to mentor."

He brought access and relationships? "He knew people at the Water Board, yes."

Rataj says that at the end of the day Williams was nothing but a minority front? That is not true.

You were going to us another contractor, CJ Williams and Associates, as a pass-through? That is not true.

Isn't true that Williams did not have a real company that could get it's boots on the ground? He did not have a company that could get boots on the ground agrees Soave.

Williams was a minority and had a Degtroit-based business and that gave him more points in bidding process? Soave agrees with the statement.

You would agree that the contracting business is no walk in the park? Yes.

Very competitive? Yes.

And even harder for minority contractors? Yes that's why they have mentoring programs.

9:53AM You would agree it's good to help out minoritties in Degtroit? Yes.

"It's a bare knuckle fight" asks Rataj about contracting business? Yes agrees Soave.

You have to stand your ground and not be intimidated? Soave agrees with that.

You described Ferguson as a pain in the butt? Yes.

You did not have direct contact with him? Yes.

And the things you learned about him came from your employees? Yes.

"I didn't know him" Soave says about Ferguson.

You will admit that along the way you will have rubbed people the wrong way? Soave says "there are different kinds of burrs underneath the saddle,"

During the course of your career you have had to sharpen your elbows? Yes says Soave.

And you've probably rubbed people the wrong way?